Gibson Les Paul – Der Userthread

[gitarrenaxl]

Ich hab eine mit Ahorn Hals nachrüsten lassen. Sie hat mehr Attack, ist schneller in der Ansprache (liegt auch am harten Coco Bolo Griffbrett) und ist in den Mitten presänter und "mehr da". Für Rock mit den richtigen Pickups eine gute Wahl.

 

[hoss]

Eine 58er, die Gruhn gerade verkauft. Mörderdecke!

 

[mastermind83]

Yes!!! Hatte er einen Preis genannt? 150.000 Dollar? So in der Region vielleicht?

 

[Amnesic Aphasia]

180k mit neuem Case!

 

[gitarrenaxl]

Na Amnesic, juckt die dich nicht ?

 

[Amnesic Aphasia]

Stimmt, die juckt mich nicht ;oD.
Mag die neuen Cases nicht so ;oD.

 

[Pekri59]

Ich nehme sie auch nur wegen dem neuen Case nicht

 

[gitarrenaxl]

Ja wenn sie eine figured wäre, aber plaintop pfffff.... kauf ich lieber einen Lambo morgen !

 

[Pekri59]

Lambo sehe ich bei meinem Nachbar genügende. Die sind übrigens auch nicht Flametop, sondern Plaintop

 

[gitarrenaxl]

Nein, meiner ist matt lackiert !

 

[hoss]

Ja wenn sie eine figured wäre, aber plaintop pfffff.... kauf ich lieber einen Lambo morgen !

Das Grain hätte ich aber lieber als 80% der Flametops.

 

[Burkisan]

Das sehen ich auch so. Zumal solche Decken als Brett nicht leicht zu finden sind und nach dem Shapen sieht das noch mal anders aus.
Wer so eine Decke hat, kann froh sein. Meistens sieht man doch nur quarter sawn grain.

 

[DirkS]

Solange da keine Pril-Blümchen drauf sind oder ein Lilyfee-Graphity wär mir die Optik egal

 

[hoss]

Solange da keine Pril-Blümchen drauf sind oder ein Lilyfee-Graphity wär mir die Optik egal

Du meinst so, wie auf meiner Tele?

 

[DirkS]

Ja genau, allerdings 50ies Pinup ist iwie schon wieder kultig

Nur auf einer echten 58er Les Paul wäre das tabu, da könnt ich mir ja gleich aus dem Korpus einen Kinderschaukelsitz schnitzen.....

 

[Burkisan]

Echte 58er Les Pauls sehen oder sahen aber öfter so oder ähnlich aus. Die Jungs ahnten noch nichts vom Burstfieber und hatten keine Gnade.
Später wurden solche Aufkleber verschämt wieder abgefummelt, aber die Rückstände findet man manchmal noch.

 

[hoss]

Ja genau, allerdings 50ies Pinup ist iwie schon wieder kultig

Nur ist die Tele leider keine 50ies

 

[gitarrenaxl]

Das Grain hätte ich aber lieber als 80% der Flametops.

Geschmäcker sind verschieden !

 

[hoss]

Im LPF geht es rund!

Hier nun ein irrer Thread über eine Burst die von bekannten Replika Bauern (unter anderem MAX Baranet) via Guitar Center verkauft wurde.

Alle schreien Fake! aber Joe Ganzler sagt: Echt!

http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=188518

9 0623

The anatomy of the guitar itself might add up.

In fact, with Ganzler inspecting it the way he did, I am quite positive this guitar is anatomically vintage correct in all the important details. No criticism of Ganzler at all - I think he is probably the best there is at this sort of thing.

But a lot of other things simply don't add up.

Namely, the entire backstory.

Just pure common sense - find fault with any of the following:

How does a Burst, that spectacularly flamed, get played so much, that it causes that degree of arm wear, fading...

and not one damned person in the world has ever even known of, or reported about, its existence? All these years?

Not a single post about it, or the serial number, over the entire history of the Internet and all the guitar related discussion forums?

And the guy who DOES find the guitar, and who brings it to the public light for the very first time, is best pals with, literally, the most notorious replica Burst builder in history?

A builder who is obviously (judging from all the Facebook photos posted here) still building replicas, by the way? So the criticisms of his vintage incorrect details from the 1980s replicas he built are totally irrelevant to his present day builds? With all the detailed info presently available in today's day and age, to improve his craft?

If you were ever going to buy an expensive piece of famous art, would you buy it from the most famous art counterfeiter in be world? Or his best pal?

Add me to the list of people who wouldn't. That is for sure.

When a Burst passes all the important physical tests, but practically none of the common sense ones, how do we reconcile that?

As I have said on this forum before, in today's day and age, the guitar is, in a lot of ways, the EASY part.

Here I go again! What EXACTLY are we supposed to see or not see on these guitars anyway? Let's break it down together, shall we? We'll start with #9-0623 AND #9-0541 "together":
- Body shape - measured by me with my "template" - EXACT.
- Headstock - Asymmetrical, soft-tooled "mustache" - as found on ALL vintage Les Pauls; as NOT found on the five Max's that *I* have examined.
- Headstock taper - EXACT of vintage
- Orange peel on sides of headstock - EXACT of vintage finishes
- Holly headstock veneer, Gibson Logo, Silkscreen - all within vintage parameters
- S/N's: Correct fonts, correct spacing, correct degree of "boldness" for each, given their respective condition(s).
- Tuner placement - EXACT of vintage.
- Fretboards - Both vintage Brazilian rosewood, both with original vintage frets (small frets on -0628, ORIGINAL .995" large frets on -0541; which for the record, this dimension fretwire has been UNAVAILABLE for MANY YEARS)
- Inlays - EXACT of original, displaying proper degree of "swirl" for each "era of manufacture" respectively; each set clearly cut from the same "block" of material
- Neck binding - correct, original, w/proper tortoise dots, and ZERO evidence of ever being removed from their respective fretboards/necks
- Neck profile - in each case, "proper" for their respective era of 1959
- Heel - correct profile, with correct "less than 90%" angle with respect to the body. For the record, this is one of those things that is almost NEVER done correctly on any Fugazy that *I* have examined; and I've seen a few!
- ZERO evidence of neck removal/replacement; lacquer intact all around each heel, lacquer FULLY intact in each neck pocket
- Pickup routes - CONSUMMATE
- Placement of pickguard, p'up rings, bridge, stop tail, and knobs - EXACT of vintage
- Top carve(s) - Both within vintage parameters, given that these are hand-finished
- Electronics cavities - EXACT of original; each with their own slight anomalies, but each "within spec" of other Bursts that I have examined w/in their respective S/N# ranges.
- Body binding - vintage butyl nitrite material on each
- Body rear edge carve - EXACT correct angle; again, never seen this EXACTLY duplicated
- ALL plastic, metal, and electronics parts - Vintage, correct. Of note: on BOTH guitars, degree of wear on ALL parts was commensurate with overall wear/condition EXACTLY.
- Pickguards - BOTH "Burst 'Guards"; NEITHER were "cut P-90" 'guards
- ALL electronics - 100% correct and original
- Backplates - 100% correct and original, with proper striations
- "Chew Marks" - CONSUMMATE, with proper "peaks and valleys", and old dust in the valleys; again, I'm STILL waiting to see this properly replicated.

O.K. - now on to the "anomalies" on #9-0623:

- Color - In person, looked ABSOLUTELY correct. This guitar is showing that subtle shade of "greening" that I have yet to see exactly duplicated. There IS not a good photo of the color of this top.
- Top - HEAVILY machine-buffed; to within an inch of its life! And seen by me MANY times - We used to call it "The New York Buff".
- Armwear - a bit "excessive", but consistent with the excessive corrosion of the nickel parts. Whoever played this had "tiger piss" for sweat!
- Body binding - VERY shrunken; and like I've seen before on "whupped" Bursts. Get out your BOTB and your loupe (you DO have a loupe, don't you?) and check out #9-2204 - similar degree of wear, similar fade, and VERY similar binding shrinkage.
- Pickup leads - FULL length! C'mon guys - cutting the leads to the "proper length for a Les Paul installation' is "Forgery 101". My theory - the electronics on this guitar were installed by another person on that day, maybe from the Thinline assembly line. To ME, THIS anomaly ALONE makes the guitar HOPELESSLY REAL! Oh yeah - ALL the solder joints appeared original, with lead-core solder, and all blacklighted perfectly.

Yeah, I don't like the "goofy" wear mark, and I don't like the machine buff, and I wish the binding wasn't QUITE so shrunken (though shrunken binding is EXPECTED on vintage Bursts to SOME degree. So there 'ya go; now onto #9-0541:

Uh - NO anomalies WHATSOEVER! PERFECT degree of binding shrinkage, "random wear" in places that make NO sense for a builder to deliberately "put" them; beautiful original finish; ALL parts wear commensurate with overall condition of the instrument; ALL parts correct and original BURST parts. Oh yeah - the pickups have been "in & out", or double-whites were added to this guitar; deduct ONE DOLLAR! "Reissue wood" on the top - like #9-0291 and SEVERAL other ABSOLUTELY REAL Bursts that have surfaced.

So again - you Boys believe what YOU want to believe. This is what *I* saw, what *I* documented, and what I'm sharing with you now. If I'm wrong about EITHER one of these guitars, it's not for me doing half-assed examinations. Furthermore, I would find it REMARKABLE to the point of being INCONCEIVABLE that a builder could get ALL of these "tells" that *I* look at "right" on BOTH of these guitars - it flat out takes a LOT of work (and a lot of $ getting ALL the proper parts to go on a replica). But again, I could be wrong...

What a clusterf*ck!

I have heard so much here, and also privately today on this guitar. 9-0623

With all I was told, with all I have seen [a few more photos] my conclusion is that I still trust all my friends, who happen to be on different sides of this debate.
I still have deep and full confidence in Joe Ganzler and until I see evidence in hand [not conjecture] I will accept this guitar as he has stated.

I would also welcome an in depth examination of it, but I am in no position to ask for that, and I wouldn't if I knew the current owner [which I don't].
If I were asked my opinion, I would recommend the examination, and how I think it could best be done [which would be expensive and time consuming].
I doubt that will happen soon.

As I told one of my friends this evening, ....

this is going to screw up my plans to watch Law & Order reruns. :dang

 

[DirkS]

Interessant. War bei den Preisen der 59er wohl nur eine Frage der Zeit, bis ganz überraschend "neue" (?) auftauchen. Für 200.000 $ wird sicher ein Fälscher eine hinbekommen, die von einem Original nicht zu unterscheiden ist. Für viele Teile könnte er eine 59er Goldtop schlachten (20.000 $), der Rest ist sicher auch irgendwie machbar.

Nur aus diesem Grund kaufe ich keine 59er.....